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About this Episode

Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. In this episode we delve into the complexities of sustaining behavioral changes beyond the initial enthusiasm of the new year. They explore the intersection of motivation, environment, and identity in shaping our ability to maintain new habits. This episode offers a blend of personal anecdotes, motivational interviewing techniques, and practical strategies for long-term change, making it an invaluable resource for anyone looking to transform their approach to personal goals and well-being.

In this podcast, we discuss:

• Understanding Motivation: The discussion on the significance of ‘Focus Mountain’ as a metaphor for setting and achieving goals.
• Sustaining New Year Resolutions: Strategies to keep up with resolutions past the excitement of January.
• Role of Environment in Behavior Change: Insights on how our surroundings influence our ability to sustain changes.
• Emotional Connection with Future Self: Exploration of how our future aspirations can motivate present actions.
• Overcoming Deprivation Mindset: Techniques to shift from a mindset of deprivation to one of lifestyle change.
• The Importance of Small Steps: Emphasizing the power of starting with minimal, manageable actions.
• Identity and Behavioral Change: Discussion on how changes in self-perception can impact habit formation and maintenance.
• Celebrating Progress and Finding Joy: The importance of acknowledging small wins and incorporating joy in the journey of change.
• Leveraging Personal Relationships: How relationships can motivate and challenge us in our journey towards personal improvement.
• Agency and Informed Choice: The role of agency in behavioral change and the importance of being well-informed in decision-making.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

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Transcribe

 Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome. To the communication solution that will change your world. Hey everyone. It’s Danielle Cantin here with the Communication Solution podcast. And I am with your hosts, Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. Hey Casey. Hey John. Hey. Hey. Glad to have you here.  I am looking forward to helping our audience and myself secretly, not, or not so secretly,  figure out how to navigate the new year.

And how do you actually sustain? Behavior. So I’m thinking ahead February 1st, March 1st, because everything’s kind of fun and glamorous in January.  And seems attainable.  But we’ve talked in other podcasts episodes about,  kind of setting up the goals and change, you know, things that you might want to achieve in the new year.

And this seems like a great segue to, to talk about how to, how to sustain those changes. What are your thoughts? You know, I’ll, I’ll, I’m going to take this off just because I’ll do the conceptual. And then John gets into the, you know, he’s got the brilliant brain for the technical side of it. The thing I think of Danielle is that it’s like prepping for the climb.

And this is why, you know,  the focus mountain, focus, mountain, focus, mountain, focus, mountain, focus, mountain. Like that’s, that’s my reset button is focus mountain. And so we were thinking about is, you know, November hits and you have a great Thanksgiving and you know what, I’m starting my diet January 1st anyway.

So I’m just going to enjoy the holidays. And then Christmas comes and Christmas cookies and the, all the little treats on the doorstep. And, but then in January, January 1st, it’s going to, then New Year’s Eve. It’s like, okay, I’m going to party it up. But because January 1st, because all we see is the top of the mountain, we’re starting to get focused on why it’s important to me, motive is huge, you know?

And, and when we give ourselves so much permission to go there. It’s almost like our own patents, like on the flip side, it’s like, you know, I’m just going to give myself permission and then I’m going to do, you know. Eight days a week, I’m going to be doing CrossFit for two hours a day because I’m going to, I’m going to do it like, you know, but, but that’s why I’m going to eat the extra pumpkin pie and with extra rooftop, like, oh, yes, and just a few more extra drinks,  that I think that whole thing about I am packed, I am loaded, I’ve got my backpack in the corner, I’ve got everything in there, I bought new stuff, like I am climbing this mountain,  So that’s the way that I look at motive in motivational interviewing, because we’re so clear the top of the mountain and I have got the latest equipment because this is the year, this is the year I’m going to hit the peak.

 And then after one, I have to interject because I can’t stop laughing, but it’s almost like the visual you just created for me. It’s that I’m on the base, base of the mountain, and here’s the top and I’ve got a plan. To just blink myself up there on whatever day, fully prepared and completely escaping.

That’s exactly it. And that’s why the sustainability, the motive, people know how to whip up motive, you know, we can listen to podcasts. We can, you know, get inspired by things we can, you know, buy these diet plans and I’m going to do meal prep and I’m going to, you know, have them deliver my meals to me and I am going to nail it.

Like this is it, you know, and I, I’ve heard about this personal trainer.  And then you’re day four into your first fast and you’re like, I hate this. And then you’re supposed to get up in the morning and go to the personal trainer and you’re like, and I hate him, or I hate turnover. I hate them. . And then it’s just like, now you’re week two and you’re like, God, I, how have I gained five pounds?

I stopped two weeks ago and I’ve gained five pounds. And it’s like, and this backpack, why did I pack so much crap in here? Like I didn’t need a. gold plated canteen.  So I’m ditching that thing. And then you’re sitting on the stump rubbing your feet going, why the hell am I climbing in the first place?

So that’s the Casey version of trying to sustain behavior change from a focused mountain perspective. Now let john jump in and give you all that. The technical aspects of what just happened when I give you the visual aspects of what just happened. Oh my gosh, Casey, well, well laid out for a definite,  yes, relatable laying out of all the parameters here.

Well, yeah, ultimately, oh my gosh, there’s so much in what you said, but ultimately it seems to be that we have this intrinsic motivation, right? This, Oh, I’m going to do it. I’m going to get, I’m going to get up there. I’m going to do this thing. And it’s really. It’s serving us because it justifies us feeling satisfied in the moment to indulge to be like, yes, I get to do this thing because then I’ll do this other thing and it’s this really interesting mental gymnastics of we tend to want to be Having our short term gratification and our long term gratification, at least that’s one way to perceive it.

And I’m wondering both of your thoughts on this Casey and Danielle, but this sense of we want that short term gratification and sometimes that long term gratification of really being fit and healthy. It just doesn’t have the same intrinsic draw as the pumpkin pie, as the next drink, as the whatever, as the giving our future self that sense of well being is just harder to emotionally connect with and feel.

And it’s just seems to be that blockage of we do know the next drink. We do know the next dessert gives us that emotional. Yeah. And it seems like that sense of whatever that emotional draw is and how much we can do the mental gymnastics to get past having to have some delayed gratification seems to be something I’ve noticed for myself and In my and other things, when we talk about values and the value of well being, that’s wonderful.

The value of Casey being around for your kids even more potent.  And and there’s some more potency to it, but it still means you got to give yourself that future that future self. That delayed gratification in the now, and that is just so hard to do for a number of reasons. But that’s what I was sensing in the, the rawness and the relatability of what you shared.

No, one of the first thing you learned in biology too. I mean, even in middle school, biology is human beings and animals, you know. Head towards pleasure and avoid pain. So it’s way easier to head towards the second piece of pumpkin pie. And it is very avoidant that my body hurts when I work out like this is hurting me right now.

So there’s that also just that, that part of us that as creatures, it makes sense why things unfold the way that they do. Is there anything that, because your description, John really made me feel a little bit better about it. Cause I’m like. I, I just don’t connect emotionally with that future self. Like I can, but the only way I can do that is to remember, maybe pull something from the past.

That was like, Oh, I remember when I did that and I felt so good, but it’s still not even what would I do now and in the future? Cause I’m so different from who I was back then. So I’m, I kind of, I didn’t realize that, but I’m scrambling to make me feel something to, so that I’m more connected to achieving that future self.

Is there. It sounds like that might be normal for everybody. Is there something I could be doing or our listeners could be doing to make that more emotional or is that not the point? Well, this is where it gets into all sorts of possibilities. Danielle, the fact that you’re aware of that is a huge first step to recognizing some sense of direction from here of what.

Seemingly for what’s resonating with you would help you to feel more emotionally connected with your future self to give them like you would a friend or someone you care about this compassion, this self compassion, this support, this friendship, this love, this health, this stuff you would want for others.

Now, to do that emotionally, this is where there’s all sorts of possibilities on here. I’ll mostly stick to. An M I type perspective, because that’s what, you know, we’re here to talk more about. And I’ll be curious what, what Casey wants to come in with, but there’s bound to be therapies that are in my spirited, like internal family systems might be one.

That’s a very in my spirited like approach. There are acceptance, commitment, therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy. There are these other types of specific therapies that are designed. Beyond MI to help you in certain ways that are beyond the scope of, you know, my full training. And Casey, of course, can, we could get into that.

Maybe another podcast, if, if viewers or listeners would like to get into that, but I just want to mention that’s one route, Danielle. And then there are other sort of self help. Books that people are looking for this, right? That’s why there’s so much in the self help section is exactly for this. But there are a variety of things just thinking about, okay, you’re talking about this sense of how emotionally connected and important is this to me?

That might be one part, but just like the book atomic habits and other behavior change books, they point to, maybe it’s the environment to just make it so ridiculously simple that I just. Keep the momentum going of tiny changes. It might be that where you don’t need to as emotionally connect. You just make it so high confidence that this is a no duh that you’re going to at least have the shoes by the door or turn this way instead of that way to walk around the block and have a different identification that maybe that wasn’t as bad as I thought it was just walking around the block or whatever.

So there’s a lot of ways to go about behavior change that the book called get it done by an Israeli psychiatrist. She gets into a lot of stuff around that, but I just want to highlight from an M. I perspective. I would say it comes down to your environment, the importance of emotionally and the confidence of how much is your behavior getting you what you want and how confident do you feel that you could even start making that progress?

But that’s just 1 kind of. Perspective on it. Casey, I’m kind of curious how you think about this emotional connection and how important that is versus other things. I don’t know. I’m wondering. Yeah, I’ll tell you because my narrative is shifted. Like my narrative in my brain has always been especially around health.

And fitness had always been, you know, I love I’ll play sports all day long, even if I’m not in shape to play sports, I’ll play sports all day long. I just don’t like to exercise.  That was just always my mantra, my, just my narrative in my brain. Like I’ll, I’ll go play anything. Even if I’m out of shape, I’ll go play football or do whatever we’re going to do.

Just don’t make me get on a treadmill. Don’t, I just, I’m not going to jog around the block. I’m just, that’s just not me. I, it, is it. It is overly ingrained in my brain for whatever reason, and I think because I like sports, but I hated the workout so much, you know, with your football pads on running up and down hills and, you know, in the gym, running up and down bleep like I hated all that I hated it.

 But I was in great shape.  The difference now, which shifted and it’s so much because of our. Our personal friendship, John, and all the things that you’ve helped me navigate and then motivational interviewing is, I remember one of the first things that was profound for me was laying in bed, just thinking, I know I need to exercise and I don’t want to.

And then I just started using focus mountain in my brain. And what it was is. So do you want to be around for your children? I want to be around for my children more than I don’t want to exercise. And I remember literally rolling out of my bed, out of the blankets and hitting the floor and doing five pushups and then rolling on my back and doing five or 10 sit ups.

Because then I knew my behavior was in line with my values, I didn’t have to go to the gym for 20 minutes because I knew that I wouldn’t sustain that, but I knew I could sustain rolling out of bed literally. And I would do that instead of hitting snooze. I just advise in a hotel didn’t matter what I would, where I was at.

I would just literally roll on out of bed, land on the floor, do 5 pushups that became 10 pushups became 20 pushups became 50 setups. And it was just like, because. And, and every day that I didn’t want to do it because I was tired or whatever, I would say, how much do you want to be around for your children?

I want to be around for my children enough to roll out of bed right now and do a few pushups. So it never made me go to the gym and that helped change my behavior. And then I sustain that. And that’s why I love everything that you’ve taught me about lifestyle medicine is that if I’m trying to lose the 10 pounds, I’m going to yo yo diet for eternity.

If I want to just start to eat healthier, that’s going to have an impact on my body composition. When, you know, through conversations you and I had when I shifted more towards, you know, predominantly vegetarian,  lifestyle, it just, it wasn’t that complicated for me because I was working towards something, not depriving myself of anything.

So people are like, how do you give up steaks? How do you, I mean, you’ve experienced this, you know, and you’re more extreme than I am in your eating.  It’s like, how do you give that up? How do you give up steaks? How do you give up? And it’s like, God, my brain just doesn’t think that way about it. I love all that.

I just love international cuisine. So there’s the majority of international cuisine is just not meat based. So I just. So it’s like, Oh, that’s so weird. I don’t think about giving up steak. I don’t think about giving up hamburgers. I think about how much I love Ethiopian food.  And I’m going to have Indian food today.

And it’s just like, that’s the stuff that I get excited about. And I think that’s part of that emotional shift of instead of deprivation. Which creates this clinging to, and I just going to do it one more time or, okay, I’m going to cheat today. We get into all those emotional and mental gymnastics. And I think when you’re doing lifestyle medicine thinking, it’s just more like, Oh, I’m just walking towards who I want to be.

And if I’m walking towards that, I wouldn’t pick up this bag of French fries. I need them right now. Cause that’s just, I can do it tomorrow. That was my, my thing that really helped me is if I want to eat the, you know, the cold stone ice cream.  You have total permission to eat tomorrow. Today we’re just not going to eat it.

Okay. And I’m just like, yeah, today I’m just not going to eat it. But tomorrow I can if I want to. And that just helped that lifestyle mindset. And every day I just go, yeah, I can do it tomorrow. I’m just not going to do it today. So I never triggered my own deprivation mindset either. So I don’t know how that fits with some of the things you’re talking about, John.

But I just know those are things that were profoundly helpful. And even with the Peloton for me,  I, it was, I was so intimidated by it because I’m not a biker. That’s my narrative. I’m just not a biker.  I’ve never biked like that.  But as soon as, you know, I learned what I needed to do, I just would hit the five minute warm up and that’s all I do the five minute warm or I do the five minute cool down and every single day.

And then all of a sudden, like day four, I’m like, well, I’m going to, I’m going to add a five minute cool down to my five minute warm up. So then I’m doing 10 minutes and then all of a sudden I’m doing a 20 minute ride. And now, you know, so it’s just, it just, because that’s who I want to be. And I like it when I see myself in the mirror on the Peloton, that’s like, Oh, this, this is who I want to be.

It’s not like, oh, my God, I got to get up and work out. It’s not that deprivation or pain mindset. It really is that lifestyle mindset that you really have profoundly helped me navigate. Well, this, this is huge, Casey, because you’re getting into things that actually are so much about identity. And this is what self determination theory gets at.

That is not inherently an underpinning of motivational interviewing. But this is actually part of what got me into motivational interviewing was going to college of sports medicine international conference when I was younger and and recognizing there are these things that relate to how we see ourself for change and our identity that we’re this kind of a person.

We’re this kind of someone, and so there seems to be an identity shift of, of things that happened, Danielle, to, to your question over time that Casey is getting at that, that change in identity that I am this kind of a person and or could become this kind of a person is really a huge one, and I would definitely point people towards,  self determination theory and our sense of competence around something.

And the less competent we feel, probably the less able we’re going to do the pushups or the peloton or the whatever, the sense of relatedness, how much are there people around us in our environment doing these things? And if not, that is a big factor. In us engaging in that, and then there are other things that I’m ashamed to have forgotten about it, having not been able to pull up a tab and look up self determination theory right now, but there are other factors that were even talked about in Denmark when we were there, Casey, but there are other factors that go into this that I would point people to, but those, those things you were speaking about Casey are important.

How competent am I feeling? Am I making a sense of progress? Am I having a sense of what I know to do here? Well, if not, that’s a place for personal trainers or credible sources of information.  I would point people to Nutrition Made Simple YouTube,  channel that has a 10 to 30 minute resistance training workout that has evidence to show it’s very basic, like Casey, you were talking about.

That has evidence to show. You don’t have to do a lot. You just have to do a little bit of something and stay consistent and have that start to change your competence, your relatedness. And I’ll lastly say, Danielle, and then, of course, Casey, feel free. If you want to add anything more, it’s what is our environment.

And we live in an environment where people are making a lot of money off of our short term pleasure seeking gratification. And if we don’t change our environment, there’s a lot of research to point to this, we are likely going to be going up that really, really steep mountain that’s really, really long.

And when we then add to it, we don’t see our identity and our competence and people around us. It is a monumental task when we do not set up our environment to make the healthy choice, the easier choice or the healthy choice, our identity choice, or we don’t have other people around us to help support us to make that choice.

That’s where the intrinsic. Motivation to change our extrinsic cues can be really important beyond just your own emotional,  connection with your future self, but there are apps. You can take pictures of yourself and age yourself and hold those up and think of your future self. I’ll just mention that too.

That’s kind of interesting. I see Casey, maybe not liking that, but those are things that other people use as well. That’s really my future self in the mirror every day. That’s the painful wincing. I don’t need an aging app. I just look in the mirror and that’s, that’s enough for motive for, for, for me,

I was just going to say, I think that was really helpful. I enjoyed your last point, John, about,  let’s just. Be honest about what our society in the U. S. at least,  is really only what I can speak to because I had a very different experience.  When I went,  across, you know, to other countries, but we are surrounded by a pleasure now.

Kind of society. So to getting that out there and just saying, Hey, we already have a hurdle here. So how can create we create a microcosm for ourselves? That’s the environment that’s going to be more supportive, you know, and of course, have ambitions to maybe change the greater one. And there’s a lot of people and companies and organizations trying to do that.

But,  the googled while you were talking in the 3 things they say for the,  is,  for. No, I forget.  What was your determination theory? Yeah, it was competence relatedness or connection. And then the third that’s showing at least in Google is autonomy, which you have talked about.  So I think when I’m hearing you guys and correct me if I’m wrong, cause I’m that naive brain, right.

When it comes to motivational interviewing, but as I look to the new year to.  Sustaining that behavior change I’m looking for and I equate it to what I know about motivational interviewing, I think I’m kind of invited into a little bit more empathy,  for myself, empathy of really stepping into my shoes and saying, Oh yeah, I get it.

I get it. You, you had these goals, you set this thing out, you, you made this commitment to the new year and you were fired up and maybe now you’re not feeling that way, you know, come February 1st. So really being much more accurately, I’m empathetic with myself. And then knowing that when that resistance comes up, also getting that, getting the ambivalence that’s going to come up with, I do want that.

And I relate that to your story, Casey, of I’m laying in bed and it’s just like, I’m tired. And then, well, do I want to be there for my kids? So there’s different ways I can walk myself through even my naive brain understanding of motivational interviewing to kind of help, help me keep marching forward toward that behavior change that I want.

Is that? You know, and I think that’s accurate, Daniel. Yeah, it is. And I think the thing that I appreciate so much and why I think your contribution is so helpful is you can see. In the absence of understanding some of these constructs, why people will beat themselves up thinking they have a lack of willpower or people judging other people for a lack of willpower.

It just we we’ve, you know, when you look at evolution of just even human psychology, it’s so much about blaming the individual so often. And just, we’re fortunate in an era where we understand so much about brain science and neurochemistry and how things function more effectively that it’s like, wow, we have been really hard on ourselves,  between family of origin messages between, you know, maybe religious structures, you know, there’s just so much guilt and shame and blame that comes down to willpower and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Now that we understand so much about brain science and trauma, it. It’s like, how do we capitalize on where we know the brain is the most functional and so when you’re laying in bed, you can train, you can, you can learn things about how do I maximize that the, the smart part of my brain, which just means I don’t want to.

And there’s all sorts of things I don’t want to do. I don’t want to go to work, but I’m also not five years old anymore. You know, I’m not 10 years old saying I don’t want to go to school, mom. You can feel that way, but we know we need to get up and do it. So you can capitalize on those infrastructures inside of yourself and strengthen those and reward those in a way that they become a lifestyle change.

And I think that’s, what’s fascinating about, you know, how this evolves. I’m curious, Daniel, what I wanted to ask you is, which is where we started with. Is from the things you’ve heard, what have struck you in terms of how does this fit for February 1st or March 1st for you, just all the things you’ve heard in your own process of change or new year’s resolutions when you come into it thinking, you know, I know my struggle when I hit February 1st or March 1st, or, you know, and it just starts to fade from the things you’ve heard.

John and I talk about what’s kind of mulling through your brain. With a different perspective or things that have been helpful.  I think really identifying and making sure that I am spending time with the top of focus mountain.  I’m going to start with just the deep, deep laughter, which it was just so true for me.

That’s why I couldn’t stop laughing at the beginning is, Oh my God, I am so great at motivation. Like woohoo, I’m in and a hilarious visual for me of like, Oh yeah. And I just want to, you know. Pull volt up onto the top of the mountain. So it’s reminding myself in, in, in a kind way, not in a, Oh my God, look at you did something wrong with me.

But like, that’s kind of funny that I do that. Okay. And now I know more, I know better. And it’s like come February 1st, I think I’m going to remind myself, Hey, enjoy. You’re actually on this path among all the trees. Don’t lose sight of what’s up top and where are you and where do you want to pivot? What do you want to do as you’re climbing up that mountain?

 And then I think. My biggest takeaway is all the different tools and points of view that you guys just shared a huge one is environment Acknowledging what kind of the force that I’m up against Also the opportunity for who am I going to surround myself with and what am I going to surround myself with in my environment?

to help support that and Again a little more kindness around competency. So it’s like Yeah. I don’t like doing stuff. I’m not good at, I like to win too. And how can I set myself up to win in smaller doses? So I’ve been kind of doing the same thing as the pushups, but with planks,  and it’s fun. Cause it’s like, all right, just do it for, you know, I think I’m up to two minutes.

So it’s like, okay, and now two minutes and five seconds. And you know, so it’s making gamifying it for me and doing things to increase my confidence and my competency. So those, those are all things that are popping, you know, and the thing that I, when I listen to you talk about what’s so helpful, I remember one of the most profound things in my brain understood as a therapist, you know,  and I would talk to clients about this all the time to just take the guilt and the shame away from things and the kind of the, the self.

This, the negative self narratives, because it was such like a truth, like it just hit me the difference between being normal and being healthy. Normal by definition is the norm. So to not follow through to beat yourself up is normal. But the thought that you have a choice of being healthy. Or there’s nothing wrong with being normal.

Like you are in the thick of the bell shaped curve because that’s by definition what the norm is. And the norm is to not be healthy. And I think for me, that was also a motive for me in my own mental, emotional, spiritual, physical health growth. It’s just like, yeah, being normal doesn’t appeal to me.  Being healthy, very much appeals to me being healthy mentally, emotionally, spiritually and physically is very appealing to me.

And that’s where I wanted to put energy. So when I don’t get up and exercise instead of beating myself up, I think this is normal.  You know, eating the extra piece of pie is normal.  You know, indulging in my security and wine nights is normal and it’s not always healthy. And one of the things john said that I love is because it gives me that permission is everything in moderation, including moderation.

So it’s like, you know, yeah. And so there are times for just for indulgence because it’s part of the human experience is part of why we’re here. And then just for me, at least in that competitive edge is always around. Yeah, I just normal doesn’t appeal to me. And so just keep walking towards the top of the mountain.

What I found is the more I walk towards the top of the mountain, it’s, it’s,  Yeah.

Without there with no judgment on it, what I find is there’s fewer and fewer people up there, the further up the mountain you get,  because it’s more normal to be at the base of the mountain.  It’s just normal to get caught in those trees. And so what I, what, because of me being me and I’m so obsessed with connection and intimacy with people is the quality of people I find further up the mountain are people that are more of the people like me that like talking about those things and.

Yeah. Focus on those things. That’s why john and I have such a profound bond as friends is because it’s we met each other and we push each other to climb further up the mountain even when it’s painful. And my fingernails are bleeding and you know, and I’m sweating and hurt and my body aches and I’m dehydrated and I just want to punch him in the throat, you know,  but it motivates me to keep Are you guys just practicing the technique that you took together?

Yeah, I’m just practicing. I’m not letting him beat me. Even if I have to grab him by the ankle and yank him down, I’m not gonna let him beat me. So,  and John’s the same way. So that’s the thing that it’s so much fun too is when you do make it past the trees to an extent and you find other people that are really craving all the things at the top of the mountain and they’re They’re doing not normal things to get there,  to get to the top of the mountain.

It’s how you find people that are more supportive of that. And you can relate to and, and,  and link with, and that, that is part of the motive as well, too, that keeps you going because now it’s not, I didn’t find a workout partner. I found somebody that just naturally challenges me in life.  And those are the things that just again, then it triggers my competitive edge thing.

And it’s just like, I’m not going to lose.  So you guys are, you guys are so funny. I’m sorry, I want to just bring in one thing as, as,  one thing that I would feel remiss if we did not touch on is there’s, there’s a few things here, but one deals with the celebration of progress and we can just forget.

To celebrate accomplishment in a way that obviously the more it’s connected. Ironically, in this case with. Desserts and alcohol and stuff. Maybe there are other ways to celebrate all the time, but the idea is to bring joy back into it to bring fun and play. In particular, there’s a lot of psychology more looking to play and other things we could get into related to that.

But. Casey, that’s what you were talking about with sports and stuff. What do you intrinsically enjoy that moves your body, that gets your heart rate up? If we’re going to talk about exercise, what do you already enjoy that are foods that, you know, your mom would be happy that you’re eating that are healthy for you, you know,  things that you can start with a sense of pleasure and joy and not have to have it be completely separate.

There just might have to be a shift in our flavor palette, either literally Salty, sweet, fatty, or metaphorically, to what we find joy in when we’re playing, is it joy in sitting and watching the TV, or could you see a You know, movie or something like that, while doing a little bit of walking, or is it going to have to be a game that takes the extra effort of trying to organize people and do all that?

Where are you at? What brings you joy? Celebrating success? And in your environment, what lights you up? Maybe it’s not your future picture of yourself, Casey, for you. It might be a picture of this place in For those that are fortunate enough to have, you know, those vacations and things to look forward to, it might be a picture of something like that.

It might be just your family on in a particular area that triggers you when you wake up and you’re tired or after work to go on that walk around the block or whatever the thing is. What are these things around you to set up your internal reality to find that sense of this is worthwhile for me? for other people, especially, and what lights you up around all that.

And then give yourself some affirmations, Danielle, not just empathy, your own sense of I’m on the path. I am strong. I am beyond what I’m capable of. And that’s where everyone can go on YouTube and find a bunch of incredible. David Goggins or whatever motivational, motivational,   YouTube videos that talk about finding that sense within yourself, that you’re beyond yourself.

And I think when you bring all this together, it starts to shape into the responsibility comes back to us. To be getting our behavior aligned with what we ultimately want and that that can be a lot, but it can start simple and that whole journey to 1000 miles or whatever begins with the first few steps.

I think that’s what we’re talking about here and how to do that. Why to do that and where to start, you know, and And to make that concrete, what this, another experience I had Daniel with John, I mean, just when I listened to him talk about all that and the things we’ve talked about, there are those core moments, one of the most profound for me that that pulls so many of these thoughts and these structures together.

I remember a time John was over, he was leaving, he always bikes to the house. Most of the time is bikes to my house, which is quite a distance. And he was half limping down the porch stairs.  And John is in phenomenal shape. I mean, he’s just in phenomenal shape and I’m like, John, you never limp. What’s wrong?

He goes, God, I just, it was such a hard workout. And I go, Oh, wait till you get to be my age. Cause I limped down those steps, but for a completely different reason.  And. That was the most profound moment for me because what hit me in that moment was I can be limping down the stairs and look like John does, or I can be limping down the stairs because I don’t do what John does.

But I’m going to be limping down the stairs one way or the other, and that’s part of that lifestyle thinking as well, too, for me, and I thought I cannot tell you how often that is a motive for me, like, when I wake up in the morning and my joints are sore, and I think, and when you work out, you don’t hurt quite as bad.

So you can either walk down those stairs in pain, or you can walk down those and continue to age poorly, or you can walk down those stairs in pain because you’ve worked out and your body feels tighter. That was just that moment was so profound for me.  It has been, it sticks with me when I’m writing or doing whatever I do for activity it when I’m thinking, God, this hurts.

And I think, you know what? And your body’s in better shape because it’s hurting. So, and if you weren’t doing it, your body be hurting worse. And so you get a choice, you don’t get a choice of whether or not your body hurts, you just get to have a choice of how your body looks,  that, that, that is literally my little thing now at this age of just going, you know what, you’re going to hurt either way.

So you can either be limping into the bathroom. I don’t know if I’m going to adopt that. I like, yeah, I like the choice. I mean, it’s like. The, the first part I kind of recapped what I took away and this, this new, the new contributions from you guys. I’m hearing choice. Remember your choice. How do you want to experience this to get to the behavior change you want?

I’m hearing joy, make sure it’s playful and joyful and you bring that to it. And,  Yeah, I think there’s so much to go on here and a big one I’m going to take away too is you know what I don’t know what you would identify this as is the top of the mountain in terms of values, but I’m weird and it’s like, okay, that’s cool.

I’m not normal. And I found, I think I found other weird people. I really like, so I appreciate you guys, Danielle. I want to add one last component that Casey has implied this whole time. That is really important that you’re getting it. that we feel like what we’re doing, we have agency that it’s actually going to affect something in a positive way that we see as positive.

And I just lastly want to say that cause that’s a big part of M I is supporting autonomy and activation is this sense of agency that you Do have choice, but you also have a sense of control and I would point you and everyone else here to a company called precision health reports that if you want to get some of the best lab work for your health and you look at all the peer reviewed research, it’s an example of a larger point we’re making, which is have informed choice of how much is your behavior.

Really aligning with your values or not, if we’re going to talk about well being in this and you can look at this more objectively with, with companies like that so that you can get a sense of how much am I really at risk or not? Or how much am I being more normal or not? That is an awareness, Casey, that you implied that you’ve gotten a lot of awareness around.

But I just want to invite that for whatever everyone is working on in their life. to seek outside feedback to get more of that sense of how much is my behavior really helping me get where I want to go. And that being a sense of competence as well as a sense of agency. And I think Danielle, that’s another just thing I wanted to add in with your choice that you picked up, that you do have a lot of power for the future of.

Your wellbeing and your future joy of yourself. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much. You guys, all the viewers, listeners, I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode as much as I have, and that you are off to an awesome start in the new year. And we’re here to support you says John just mentioned you’re not alone.

So reach out, let us know what we can do to serve you. Casey at ifioc. com. Email us,  reach out, join our podcast, share your ideas, give us feedback. We really appreciate you. And we’re so glad you joined us. Thanks Casey. Thanks John. Thank you for listening to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert.

As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at Casey@IFIOC.com. That’s Casey@IFIOC.com If you have questions, please email me at sey at ifioc. com. For more information or to schedule a training, visit ifioc. Com. Until our next communication solution podcast, keep changing the world.