About this Episode
Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.
In this episode, we discuss the recent international conference organized by the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT), its impact, and the essence of the communication solution.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Casey Jackson shares his excitement about the recent MINT conference and his annual attendance.
- MINT stands for the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers, a global community of trainers and practitioners.
- The founders of MINT are committed to making motivational interviewing accessible and international.
- Over 50% of the board members of MINT are from outside the United States, emphasizing its global reach.
- The conference alternates between locations in North America and international venues, fostering diversity.
- Casey and Danielle discuss the sense of community and connection with like-minded individuals at the conference.
- Dr. Bill Miller’s research on hope is highlighted, emphasizing the importance of optimism and perseverance.
- Casey illustrates how he translated Dr. Miller’s insights into practical advice to help his nephew in a difficult situation.
- The podcast emphasizes the value of motivational interviewing as a method to improve communication, understanding, and human connection.
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Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at firstname.lastname@example.org. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.
Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.
Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hi everyone. This is Danielle Cantin, your facilitator for the communication solution, a podcast with Casey Jackson here, and we’re going to talk about everything that we love about motivational interviewing. It particularly excited Casey to hear about mint, the conference you just came back from the international conference.
You go to it every year. And for those of you listening, thank you so much for joining us. And just so you know, MINT is the motivational interviewing network of trainers. So let’s chat with Casey. How did it go? Tell us about it. It was awesome. I mean, I look forward to it every year. I will say that part of my part of my bias is that I just get to connect with people from around the world that I just are dear, dear, dear friends.
I mean, Just imagine, Danielle, if you know, I know you attend a lot of things that if you get to go to a conference specifically with people from your own kind of cut from the same tribal cloth that you’re cut from, and then imagine 400 people cut from that, from that cloth, that’s, that’s the, that’s the magic that I get to participate in, you know, annually, one of the things that’s fascinating about, I think that I’m so in awe of.
The founders of motivation and what the board has really focused on. Is making sure that it is accessible. And that really is an international group. You know, so often when I’m doing a training, people say, well, you know, how does my deal with cultural differences and, and, gender differences? And does my respond to this respond this way, or does it cross cultures?
And what I love about it, even on the. On the board level, there’s an expectation that over 50 percent are not there. They’re outside of the U. S. So over 50 percent of the board members and non English speaking. And the other thing that’s really cool, and it’s it’s fun if you like to travel. Is that, they tried to alternate every year that it’ll be within kind of Canada, the United States one year, and then outside of that, on the alternate years.
So this year was in Copenhagen, Denmark, and next year will be in Christchurch, New Zealand. So, but one of them. Best parts is I just get to meet up with people that I just absolutely love and respect and adore who speak the same. Am I language that I do? So it’s just, it’s a wonderful experience.
That’s so awesome. And it sounds like they’re just as committed as you and keep showing up every year, regardless of is in the world. Absolutely. I mean, this has been going on, you know, I was, we, we call it minted. I was minted in 2008, in Ohio. But this has been going on for three 30 years, I believe, the whole gathering of motivation training trainers, has been going on for, for quite a while.
So that’s awesome. Yeah. And you, I, it’s funny, I go to so many events myself, like you mentioned, and sometimes I have to laugh cause I’m like, I’m pretty sure I’m at this one just to see my people. And then I end up something out of the event or the conference anyway, but, but the main driver really is similar for me.
It’s to go find my like minded. Folks to, to kind of reset, you know, well, it’s, it’s good too, because I know that the way that I trained motivationally, I know the way that my brain has evolved the way I look at motivational interviewing. I do, I do stress a bit at times over. Do I drift away from kind of the norm or the bell shaped curve of learning and understanding and articulating motivational interviewing?
What I felt very positive about. Is for the years that I’ve been going now for 15 years that I’ve been going, that I know my brain just tends to process differently and it’s usually stuff starts to click in my brain and I start to pursue that line of thinking and then years later it gets talked about in motivational interviewing.
So, you know, it’s like, I can get a beat on kind of where things are going and just kind of trust that. You know, for what I know as a clinician, for my obsession with motivational interviewing kind of lean into that innovation. So I know in some ways, some of the concepts like focus mountain is still nothing that’s ever been taught in motivational interviewing.
That’s that’s not a concept that’s taught in motivational interviewing, and that’s something I developed, you know, over 10 years ago. And now more people are looking at that and using that concept. So it’s, it’s fun to listen to what your colleagues around the world are doing, where the research is coming out, how people are applying it in very complex situations.
And then looking at my little world of motivational interviewing and who all the people, wonderful people I get to connect with and just go, wow, it’s nice to be. On the leading edge, because my brain is just obsessed with what makes this work so effectively. Why is it so efficient and effective? And how is it having the impact that it’s having?
So the more I get a drill into that, the more I get to kind of connect with people and, and, you know, suss out, fair it out. Why is this working so well? And what’s the latest, the data showing. I love that. I appreciate just, you know, speaking with so many people that train with you within their organizations, really kind of dialing in on that difference that you bring to the table.
Why? Why? I know I’m not the only one obsessed with you. There’s so many, And I think it’s a big piece of it really is. I admire your ability to say, I’m going to check myself. I’m going to see where, where are, where’s my goal around motivational interviewing? How am I training? How does that align with the international association?
And understanding and appreciating that you are, you know, at the forefront. So you are a bit of that innovator and then, and then seeing the, the fallout, not the fallout, but the, the follow up of other people years later, kind of tapping into what you’re doing. I really appreciate your willingness to, to go in and check on that and just say, okay, where am I with what’s happening with the rest of the world?
You know, Daniel, you and I have talked about this. I mean, there’s a thing that I do. It almost triggers an imposter phenomenon. Like when even when you say, you know, I’m so impressed when I see you and I want to be like that. I want to talk like that. And it does trigger an imposter phenomenon. But when you were talking, what strikes me is it’s not what I do.
That’s different. I think it’s what we all want to be doing that we all resonate with. Because it’s not me specifically as Casey Jackson, because I know that’s not, there may be some truth to the way that I present it, but the only thing I’m presenting is what everybody wants to hear and what they’re seeking.
There’s a truth to it. That’s why you and I have debated, you know, do we stick with keep talking about motivational interviewing or whatever. There is a larger communication solution construct out there when we’re looking at brain science behind it as well, too. So everything I’ve learned has been rooted and based in motivational interviewing.
But I think the reason why there’s this global phenomenon with motivational learning is because people are seeking the truth and they’re seeking healing and they want to find their way back to themselves. And, and if they interact with other people, whether you’re a parent or a partner, A psychologist or a social worker or a doctor or a teacher, you just want things to be better for the people you’re working with.
You just want improved outcomes. So I think to be able to take all that information and be able to distill that down into nuggets of learning and teaching that makes sense for people and catalyze that in a way that it feels like this. This resonates with my brain. This resonates with my heart. This resonates with why I’m here.
And can I help improve the quality of life for someone else? That’s not a Casey thing. That’s what we all are trying to do. And I’m just appreciative that people that I’m able to translate it in a way that people feel like, oh, my gosh, I can access this and move my life forward or people around me. I can help them move forward progressively.
So I think that’s why for me, Danielle, You know, it does trigger that bit of an imposter phenomenon, but ultimately I think where we all resonate towards this and why people gravitate towards it is because it’s kind of a homecoming. It’s it’s, you know, there’s a truth to it. There’s a, a logic to it.
There’s an emotional logic to it that really brings people together. And that, that honestly is the foundation of why I get so excited about going to the annual conference every year, the annual gathering every year. You know, I think there’s, there’s a lot of truth to that warm. My heart, when you said what people are really gravitating to is the truth, the authenticity.
I know for me, it’s, it’s a desire and a, a bit of an awe when I hear you speak, but when I hear you speak to the organizations you train, because they’re so eager to help the people they’re working with. And that is so that desire to serve and to help, and not just from, from your perspectives, but to get the results for those people.
So I think that’s the piece that, you know, warms my heart, gets me excited to be able to support you guys, even though I’m not in the trenches doing that kind of work. I too desire and wish, you know, in another lifetime or career that I could be dedicating myself to really, really learning this communication solution.
But I will, I got to jump in here on this little piece about the imposter syndrome and maybe explain a bit more about what is, what I think is Casey, what you bring that is a little bit different and it’s your ability. You mentioned the word to translate. You’re a translator. So I think you’re a really gifted seeing you training with whoever’s in the room, coming at it from their specific brain, not even a brain of a group of people serving, whether it be, let’s just say, law enforcement in a room or in the mental health section, there’s so many people doing different roles.
So it’s not even like you can tap into the brain of that role, which you can, but you have the ability to translate for any brain in the moment. I’ve just seen it too many times to say, to not be able to say, Oh, that’s kind of special. So, I mean, I don’t mean to make you blush or make you uncomfortable, but I do kind of, I guess in a way I’m asking all that already.
Yeah. Am I, am I seeing that piece correctly? Do you think. I, I, I, I, from when I hear it, I get it because I know that that’s what I experience. And what I think of is, I think that’s why people specifically, that’s why I know I found my calling because I get to do what I’m good at, which is high accurate empathy, be able to do that translation to help people get to better outcomes.
And, you know, I think that’s the gravitation towards motivational learning as a construct and then the whole. MINT for you know why so many people gather there from around the world, you know, it’s like, like I said, there’s, I believe it’s in over 27 languages. And I know it’s at least 46 different countries of people are representative that attend that forum.
So you take what you’re talking about or what your experience has been the light that it provides for me and the guidance that I see that provides for others. And then you have people coming together in the same space to talk. Okay. Specifically about that for a week is mind blowing. And then you look at the data that comes out around it.
I, the reason why I get what you’re saying is because it doesn’t matter how many times I’ve seen him when Bill Miller, when Dr. Miller gets up and does the plenary and you’ve met Dr. Miller in Austin, when he gets up and does his plenary, is there’s just something that’s transformative about the way that he talks because he is.
On one hand, he’s so authentic and there’s a part of him that just has such grace. But then there’s another part of him that is just a deep critical thinking researcher brain. So to watch that magic come together of just a very analytical brain talking about the research behind hope. And what the research shows and the potency of hope, there’s just a moment that happens.
And so you’re just like, ah, I’m in the presence of this genius, who can take all this information and synthesize it so simply in a way that I feel like I can apply it to my life. And that’s the magic that happens, when you’re in these, you know, some amazing breakouts in, in the MINT Forum. I had, there’s, there are several that were.
Just really impactful for me. 1 of the things that Miller actually distinguish between, he did a whole thing. His his new research that he’s working on now and going to write a book around is the research around hope specifically, and he’s going to. Get into it started sharing some of his preliminary findings.
One of the things that he shared and I applied this in less than 12 hours Was he was talking about the differences? he’s going through these striations of hope and different elements of what you can measure and and how critical is he was talking about the difference between the data around just basically Pessimists and optimists, just the fundamental quality of life data, that the quality of life for optimists are better than those of pessimists.
And, but the research shows around that, and on one hand, you would think, well, that would make sense because an optimist, no matter how bad their situation is going to think that it’s a good situation versus a pessimist, no matter how good the situation is, they’re gonna think it’s bad. But he said, no, when we get into indicators of health.
Psychological safety. All these other indicators that there’s just the data bears this out. The other thing from an M. I. Perspective, he was talking about in terms of self fulfilling prophecy in terms of that. If you think somebody can be successful, you’re right. And if you think somebody just doesn’t have the capacity successful, you’re probably right in your interaction with them.
So he’s pulling all this, the research behind these concepts that we hear in pop psychology, so. He was pulling together from a data perspective. One of the things that he said that I used immediately was he was talking about the difference between persistence and perseverance. And, and I ended up using it with my nephew.
It was having significant relationship issues and texted me. I’m, you know, and laying in my bed in Copenhagen and, and, get this text message and my nephew’s struggling and kind of a meltdown of a relationship. And, you know, I’m such a good guy and why do people take advantage of me? And why don’t I get loved the way that I love other people?
And it was a perfect time. And it was so magical because I texted him back a response. And basically what I told him is persistence is continuing to pursue people. That are not going to love you the way that you love them. That’s persistence. Perseverance is continuing to love people. Knowing somebody out there is going to find you love finally love you the way that you love them.
So stop persisting with the people that, you know, we’re not going to love you back, but keep with your perseverance of knowing somebody out there is going to love you the same way you love them 1 day and. Let his next response was, that’s all I needed to hear it’s like, and he’d sent me this extremely long text message, but it was so the way that I’d framed it for him and, and, and teased it out.
It just was an immediate kind of relief for his brain. And I thought, here, I am translating what Dr Miller’s talking about today in a plenary session and translating into the real world. For somebody that doesn’t even know who Dr. Miller is and immediately applies it to their life in a way that they feel a sense of relief, and some unburdening of stress on their brain.
So I think those are the things that fascinate me about how we take all this brand new things that come out all the time on motivational interviewing. How do you build on something that was such an effective model to start with? And this is again, my obsession with attending the forum and being part of that.
I think that’s so brilliant. I got goosebumps when you explain the difference because it’s a way to action hope, right? Cause it’s like, Oh, I’ve been hurt. So you don’t want to. You need to pursue something that you might not be getting what you need back. And the same turn that could flip you into closing off your heart and yourself.
So perseverance is like loving and trusting that what you need is going to come back to you. Oh, I love it. And then you put it all with science. Cause I’m like, I get all of that. And I know it and I trust it. But I’m so woo woo and I kind of, I’ve got the science piece, but not like you guys. And I love that science is backing this stuff up.
Love it. And then also just a little, Oh, sorry. Yeah, no, I was just gonna say another tidbit that I love that you said is you action, you actioned on what you learned. And that’s something I had just heard at a conference. I went to my friend actually. It’s friends with Richard Branson. And, I was like, what is the key thing that you love about him that you see that he does?
And she said, he, he takes action immediately, immediately on an idea. Like he’ll, he surrounds himself with entrepreneurs, does all these different stuff. And it’s like, if he’s got something, he, he takes action on it. So I thought that was kind of cool. Well, that’s it. And when you look at that from a motivational lens, that’s commitment talk.
We can talk about change. We can talk about we want to get healthy. We can talk about that. We want to do this. You know, I should eat healthier. I should be healthier. I should be nicer. I should do this. I should do this. That’s change talk, which is amazing. But research shows it will not change unless you catalyze change talk and.
Converted to commitment talk, which is action. So what you pick up and what you know already anecdotally is some of the foundations of what we know creates effective communication and behavior change. I love that. Yeah. And lots of data to back it up. So, yeah. So being able to get together then with, with people from around the world and have those conversations and see that in action, there, there is a magic to it.
There is a homecoming to it where. Just even certain faces that you see and to know that this is on that, that, that this, you know, these people go back to their lives and their countries and they’re influencing people and having them. In fact, there’s just something that, that just feels this kind of this web connection, you know, that stretches around the planet, of people that genuinely are trying to do this.
They, they did a video this year. And so, you know, just had people kind of line up as where it’s a welcome thing. Just said, Hey, would you talk for a second into the camera? And, what is it that you like about mint, being part of mint? And, you know, I was standing with one person from Australia and another person from the UK and, and all three of us just talked about that.
It’s like. To be able to see into the eyes of another person that, that thinks the way you think, and here’s the way that you hear and processes data, the way that you process data, even though we’re completely different parts of the world, there is something about a connectivity or humanity to that that is fascinating.
And when you look at the linguistics or language differences or cultural differences or religious differences. And they’re all in this room, 400 people, you know, 1200 people, I think in the organization, 400 people at the conference. But to know this common bond, this common connection is that we all genuinely try to operate from a high place of empathy that we see the potency in that, that you can see the potency when people, when human beings.
Irrespective of culture or gender, when human beings get clear what their values are, it does help their behavior move forward. It helps. It provides clarity and that we have a structure and communication to be able to orchestrate that and and offer that to people is just, it’s, it’s a little dizzying to me when you and I talk about it, even right now, it’s just like, it’s almost in retrospect, and it could be partially.
Jet lag, and sleep deprivation that I’m getting that dizzying effect from being back to school recently. But I look back on that and think that is just not normal. Like, that’s just not a normal occurrence that people get experience on a regular basis. And I think that’s why I, it holds such a, a strong place in my heart because.
It’s like minded people that are developing a mastering a skill set and sharing it with other people of how can we effectively try to help evolve humanity as humanity chooses to be evolved individually, when there’s so much chaos and conflict in the world right now, it’s just been, it’s been fascinating.
Yeah, it’s, just again, the training. We’re going to do in January for be the change. And, I think for all the listeners too, as I look to, to wrap up this segment, I would love to share my takeaway for them and then have you expound on it or, or correct me if I’m wrong. But when I think about the listeners, some of them might have taken training, might be familiar with motivational interviewing.
And then of course we know there’s, there’s others who aren’t, but are looking for that solution that are looking for that empathy, that way of communicating. Which is why we call it the communication solution. Right. So it’s, it’s also for those people who like me didn’t know what the heck is motivational interviewing.
This is incredible. So when I hear you talk about this, I feel like somebody who isn’t. Actively using motivational interviewing and wants to keep learning. I feel really, confident in understanding there is that web out there internationally, that the science is there, the data, and also the constant striving to expand it.
Is very exciting as well, because we are such a dynamic society across all different countries as well, that it’s a organization that’s constantly changing with what’s happening and assessing, assessing it with, with those things in mind. So is that the value, do you think, you know, just kind of wrap up for the listeners?
I do. I think there’s the value in that. And I think it ties into what we were kind of, you know, in my trying to not defend myself. From the high praise that you provide. I think it’s the same thing. It’s that we are all seeking that as well, too. You know, that there, that there’s a method we can find and master to actualize that and embody that in our lives.
And, and I think this ties into what Miller was talking about with hope that it increases my sense of optimism. It increases my sense of hope and my belief in people. The more that I get out of my own head and listen to my own values and then look at the values of other human beings, there’s, there’s a way to a betterness, there’s a way to a healthierness, there’s a way to an enlightenment.
Part of this that while we’re here, that life can be better for us individually and collectively. And, and if there’s a method we can learn on how to interface with each other more effectively to do that and embody that and embrace that and create that sign me up, which is why I signed up, you know, over 20 years ago, because it’s like, well, this, this could be it.
And, and, I have not once been let down by it. Not once has this, the construct, That I pursued been let down by it’s it’s things exponentially get better when we operate from a, not only our own values, but when we’re really are trying to be person centered and helping and healing others from my lived experience, I can say that.
Wow. That’s incredible. What a test. What’s what a testimony. Awesome. Well, I think, you know, maybe Episode we can dive into a couple takeaways that you’ve gotten from the, from the conference. But essentially, Casey, you had me at Hope . It was such a great . You had me at Hope . Awesome. Thank you. Good, good.
We appreciate you and thanks listeners for being here. Remember, there’s hope there is a solution out there to better communication in happier and healthier lives. So thanks for joining us, Casey. Thank you so much. We’ll see you next time. Excellent. Thank you. Take care.
Thank you for listening to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at Casey@IFIOC.com that’s Casey@IFIOC.com.
For more information or to schedule a training. Visit IFIOC.com until our next communication solution podcast, keep changing the world.