We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment.
Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.
Today we discuss motivational interviewing for personal growth and development.
In this episode we discuss:
- Motivational interviewing approach for our own growth
- Pre-thinking about change
- Behavior change
- Resistance or pushback
- Blaming and excuses
- Dunning Kruger effect
- Values and behavior
- Motivational Interviewing and Cultural Constructivism
- Stress and pressure
- Difference between coping and navigating skills
- Peace of mind and fulfillment in life
- Context and culture
- Blueprint and structure
- And so much more!
You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!
This has been part two of a two-part podcast. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at email@example.com, that’s CASEY@IFIOC.COM. For more information or to schedule a training visit IFIOC.com until our next Communication Solution podcast keep changing the world.
Want a transcript? See below!
We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host. Danielle Cantin here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC.
We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hello, welcome everyone to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert.
I am Danielle Canton, and I’m thrilled to be here. We had another podcast where we dove into how do you use, is it possible to use motivational interviewing for your own personal growth and development? And if you didn’t listen to the previous podcast, yes. The answer is yes. Oh my gosh. It’s gonna be essential, and it’s so.
such an incredible approach, but what that did was really reveal how much more there is to talk about this. Yes. So Casey and John, you’re here. Let’s dig in and what else can we explore around this idea of really using, motivational interviewing to help us in our, our own growth? John, I’m gonna kick it straight to you.
You had 15 different thoughts when we’re wrapping up, so I’ll let you just start unfolding all 15 . Oh, we’ll see how clear I can be. But Casey, you had talked about culture, you had talked about blaming outside of yourself, and what went through my mind too is this thing of certain personalities are gonna be more apt to be.
Open to new experience, certain personalities are gonna be more conscientious than others. So for different people listening to this, they might have a different, level of going into this and being like, yeah. Or a different level of, huh. But I say that because we all bring different personalities.
But if you’re interested in some kind of self-reflection and some kind of that’s the prerequisite I think I just wanted to give voice to that’s happening here. That is, in our trainings we talk about is someone in pre-thinking about change, pre contemplating stage of change. And if you’re there or you don’t, you’re working with someone or thinking about something, you’re inherently thinking about it.
You’re, you’re in a place of thinking about change and the very fact that you’re even considering. Self-reflection is, I just wanted to give voice to that, that that’s like the key to this and that if you think everything is 100% fine and there’s nothing wrong and you’re right all the time and you’re perfect all the time, or whatever that is, this is something that is obviously inherently not going to be helpful.
If that’s your thought. So I just wanted to, to highlight that as a prerequisite going into this is there’s, there’s an implication we’ve been getting at that you care about growth and you’re not just seeking the isness of right now. And I just wanted to first start with that and then there’s a lot of other thoughts, but go ahead Danielle.
Sorry. Yeah, I wonder if it might be helpful too, that of course if you are interested in personal development and growth, that’s gonna be essential. So I appreciate that piece. And I wonder too, cuz some folks may not have heard the previous podcast, so a quick little recap of yes, you can use motivational interviewing, the, at least the principles, the approach, the construc.
To help guide you in your personal life for your growth and development? It is possible, and I think what I heard you guys say in that previous podcast is it’s it’s an approach that really dials in on values. So if it can help you, give you the blueprint, is what you guys had mentioned? Yes. A blueprint for, okay, there’s something in my life I wanna change, or maybe that I’m not happy with it.
Just I have ambivalence. I wanna be healthy. And the example was my cholesterol’s high, yet I’m not really feeling motivated to change my diet or exercise. How can you use these tools to, start getting to the behavior change that you want? So I kind of wanted to just do a little summary for those who may not have heard the previous podcast.
You know, I’ll add a a bit more structure around it as well too. So, the basic components, when you think of just the basic basics of motivational interviewing is, is there resistance or pushback? Which means can we have resistance or pushback within ourselves about. I can say very much so I can have those feelings of pushback, resistance inside of myself towards a change.
I can want to debate that change within myself. Do I wanna do it? Do I not wanna do it? What’s my rationale for wanting to move forward or stay stuck? Do I wanna blame or do I wanna make excuses? All of those are core constructs that you navigate in motivational interviewing. So if you’re having that with an internal dialogue with yourself, then the core constructs of motivational can be implied because it’s gonna come down to.
Why am I blaming everybody else? I can ask myself that question, which means in and of itself, I have at least some insight that I know that I’m blaming people and do I have this willingness to move beyond the Dunning Kruger effect and just think that I’m right about everything and have enough humility to go, maybe I’m not right about everything, even though I feel like I am.
But am I willing to entertain another perspective? That’s that in and of itself. A leap for, for sometimes brains to get through in our own process. But if you do and you get into that, I always think of John going, huh? When John likes to do that, huh thing, as long as there’s a huh in your brain, then it’s like, oh, here’s a point of potential ambivalence.
Then I got reasons why I’m stuck and reasons why I wanna change. And that is the preface, that is the precursor to getting into the values. Simon Senek values piece of it, the focus mountain. Casey Jackson version, like that’s the precursor is we can’t even get into values if you haven’t even gone through the own debate or even willing to have that internal debate within yourself to see is this applicable with the net effect of how do I work to get my behavior to line up with what my values are, who I know I want to be, and who I know I am as a person.
I wanna get my behavior lined up with that. I want to be who I espouse myself to be. I want to be who I envision myself to be. That’s all of those constructs together, encompass elements of motivational interviewing. So I just wanted to kinda lay that out as we’re, as we’re moving into this part too. I don’t wanna interrupt your, your guys’, approach, but one quick question.
You said blame other people. Blame outside yourself, someone else. Yeah. Does that apply to also situations like, I’m gonna blame. My job, or I’m gonna blame my neighbor. And I’m trying not to think of people, but I’m gonna blame the weather. Yes. Okay. Or politics or, yeah. It, the, the complexity of this this’s a whole separate topic, but the complexity is, is that the further we can push it away from us, The less internal to turmoil we have, the more we get to have something to focus on outside of ourself so we can shove that discord external.
And we’re not wrestling with internal dissonance. Like, wait, did I screw up? Does my, you know, am I being the employee that I say I am? If I, you know, , could I really show up on time and not just blame traffic and all these, like, it, it, it just pushes a different thing. But our brain is, so we need to get to reconciliation inside of ourselves quickly.
So the, the quickest way to then do that is to either blame or, or excuse, is the quickest way to get to a reconciliation. If you don’t get to reconciliation, you end up with a lot of internal conflict. So the quickest way to offload those is to blame. The second easiest way is to make excuses, which is why, which is why not everybody is charging galloping forward into self-reflection.
Yeah, it’s uncomfortable. Danielle, this is where I want to, I wanna jump in, that we tend to seek, Comfort and we all do it and we’re just, you know, you hear the saying, we’re creatures of habit and there’s, you know, certain things we could get into with certain kinds of theories that will get out of that comfort for certain, you know, benefits.
There’s also something here to speak about that. We’re not saying it’s inherently right or wrong to focus outside yourself is what I want to just start with that there are, there’s something, there’s even a wonderful article called Motivational Interviewing and Cultural Constructivism. I was talking about this with someone in Chicago, some weeks back when we were at the international conference.
And I forget his name, wonderful trainer. But, I say that because we grow up in these cultures that inform our narratives of our positive negative. Emotional response to things. And from that place, we might feel justified and or have evidence to show that this group or these people have treated me unfairly and there’s a place to have a whole conversation, but about righteous indignation and standing up for what you believe in and creating resistance.
There’s full movements around that, that that’s your choice to do that. It’s. You gotta be clear within yourself. How much am I making a response out of a reaction to something and focused outside myself? And how much am I going inside myself and asking myself? What do I have control over and what is really aligned with my values?
And there’s a difference that I feel we’re getting at here that’s between being more reactive and responsive and focusing and blaming and excuses, quote unquote, the stigma blaming. Versus you can still stick up for what you believe in. And if anything, we’re talking about that, that’s more aligned with mi.
When you self-reflect, you go inside yourself and say, this is what I want to see in the world. This is what I want to be in the world. I think there’s an important distinction between reactivity. and consideration of who you’re wanting to be. It doesn’t mean you can’t focus on changing things outside of yourself, it just means you’re not reacting to them.
You’re responding to them is how they say in the like self-growth world. And I think that’s a really important thing with everything going on these days with talks and politics and gender and issues of race. Just to recognize that how much are you focused on who you wanna be and what you want to.
And that’s the process. I think that’s different there, Danielle, than just focus. on blaming that person that cut you off in traffic. . I love how you just tied those things together because, you know, I think it’s important for people to know they do have a right to express themselves, to share their opinion.
Absolutely. Like said on these huge topics. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Please, yes, continue to speak up for what you believe in, but don’t get caught up in it. Make sure it’s what you believe in. Make sure you’re, you’re looking at your role in all of it and your, your alignment with your values. That was, you know, the, the one thing I wanna add to that, Danielle, as you, as you pull that together, and I was thinking about it as John was talking, it’s been my obsession with the whole trauma, trauma informed stress, covid, post covid trauma, therapeutic trauma, little ty trauma of, you know, all the abuses in the world.
When our brain gets more stressed and pressured, we move further and further away from our prefrontal cortex and away from our executive functioning, which is where our smart brain smartest part of our brain processes from and, that we know of. And when we get more stressed and pressured, we get more reactive.
So all these reactions that, you know, you and John are both acknowledging very human, are very brain human, like, as we get more stressed and overwhelmed, we don’t think as sharply. We don’t, we don’t, we don’t maximize the logical part of our brain. We get more into our emotional part of our brain, then we can get even into our survival part of our brain.
The more stress and pressure we feel, which means what are we gonna do? We’re gonna make even more blaming outside of ourself. We’re gonna pick more fights, we’re gonna make more excuses just based on stress load alone you can see that. So there’s these, the, the dimensionality of what we’re talking about in terms of, it’s not just blaming other people.
It’s not just making excuses. It’s because, because I’m not willing to have insight into my own behavior. And I think that, that there is a category of people that can fall into that situation. Or situations. Not people, but situations we can fall into. Yes, yes. But there’s also this part of it of, to be able to have the awareness that it’s like I am so stressed and overwhelmed.
I know I’m not making the best decisions right now. Even that is an awareness of, it’s like I can feel I’m not on my game How many times we hope you hear people say that, especially covid post covid. I know I’m not on top of my game. I know my mind’s brain’s not firing the way I want it to. And I think this is what I’m obsessed with this structure is if you could even start to get up into that part of your brain and go, I can feel this internal struggle inside of.
All of a sudden you have that blueprint again about, okay, if I wanna be progressive in my development, how might I approach this? So it’s not, it’s not a mantra, it’s not a ritual, it’s not a checkbox thing. It’s just more of a, a, a curiosity. A curiosity and an evolving relationship with yourself about how honest and how transparent do you want to be with yourself.
And if you wanna get really, really honest and really, really transparent, means you’re not gonna be defensive. It just means you’re gonna be vulnerable which is the opposite of defensive. And when you start to feel vulnerable, then you’re not sure your next steps, which can perpetuate ambivalence, which is why.
Then we move from, once the ambivalence is there and is uncovered and revealed, then it’s just that coaxing into who do you want to be? Who do you wanna see yourself? How do you want to be perceived? And what would that look like if you, what would be one thing you would move in that direction to make you.
kind of start to step into that new reality. That’s, that’s just the basis of this model in general, from a global perspective on it. Which, so it’s not a specific technique, it’s not a specific thing per se, but there’s definitely structure and direction to it. It feels like a, an an approach. And something you just brought up for me is the stress piece.
The world is under an incredible amount of stress. Yes. People are under an incredible amount of stress and always, always, yes. But covid, post Covid, a hundred percent. People are dealing with traumas and stress and burnout. It’s for the first time ever, I just heard you like, talk about it in a way that made me.
MI is actually what you train on is actually a tool to decrease stress. Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. . I know we use the language of resistance and all this, but I’m like, yes, if you’re applying it, I’m applying it to my personal life now. And my, my, I’m sorry. Not my personal life, my, my personal growth and development, and I’m under high stress if I apply it.
All I’m doing is like giving myself an approach to say, wait a minute, I’m stressed. First of all, realize what’s happening here, , and that quit judging and adding to that stress and getting aligned with what I really believe so that it can help me start sorting through what stress feels like, which is no control.
You know, Danielle, as soon as you see this, this is really, and the thing I’ll distinguish even further, I mean, when you said that I just, it even clarified it even further in my brain. It’s the difference between developing coping skills. and learning how to navigate to get to a better outcome. You can learn coping skills to get through stress and trauma.
When the stress and trauma resides, it doesn’t mean you’re in the place that you want to be in. It just means you made it through. when you use this approach, it helps you navigate it. So the, you’re gonna have the fi, you’re in the middle of the fire anyway it’s that it helps you go when the fire goes out or if the fire ever goes out and I’m out of this fire, I’m in a better place than when I started , not, I just survived the fire.
So there’s a profound difference between coping skills and navigating skills. Difference between coping. How are we gonna get through this storm versus where are we gonna be at at the end of the storm? that, that there is a, just a fundamental difference in in mindset and skillset between those approaches, and both are value added approaches.
Anything that helps people get through stress and trauma. Great. Their coping skills. Great. But this is specifically how do you navigate them, with a, with a, a specific, you know, idea in mind. I think John was spot on. This is a multi-part podcast. Yeah. Daniel, to that point, it, it goes. Deeper and deeper, and this is part of why it’s been so wonderful with Casey over the years to pull back the onion layers.
Because now we’re even talking about, cuz as you said, what you said, I’m thinking a yes and right. The classic improv here because there’s yes to what you said, they can reach a peace of mind. And there’s also certain people, That’s their key value, say trauma is to reach this place of peace, this raise place of peace at yourself.
And that’s a sense of peace, of freedom. They wanna feel free from these emotions. And it’s not to say there’s not therapy out there that helps with these things. That is, there’s a key place. Am I? Is what we’re saying though is not inherently therapy it’s a framework to work from that tends to be reliable across cultures for most people most of the time.
So we haven’t got into how to use the focus mountain, but I just wanted to give voice to, it’s you going, well, what do I want? I want to feel better. Well, well, why do I wanna feel better? What’s that gonna get me? And what’s that gonna get me? And if you just keep ying it and going deeper for yourself as best you can, again, it can be helpful to do out loud sometimes.
For sure is what the research shows. But I say if you can do that for yourself, you’re gonna get clear what really, really matters. And what I wanted to bring up Danielle, of the yes and is that some people have have their peace of mind. The very lucky in my. Biased, opinion. The lucky, you know, people that have that more peace of mind with the way things are going now, and they’re, they got that peace of mind and they’re seeking fulfillment, right?
So their value is different because they’re burnt out or bored at their job and they’re looking for more fulfillment in their life. And so this is a way for, I just wanted to say there’s a way to use it for, if you have, and seeking out the feelings you seek rather than the stories that have happened.
You know that that Gama, and people talk about this outside of mi, but it can be a guide with trauma, potentially. It can be a guide for being stressed out. It can be a guide for having that much more happier and healthier of a life. Or it can be a guide if you’re just discontent in these ways, and it allows for a framework depending on where you’re at with what you’re talking about.
Work life, personal life. Depending on where you’re at with that, it can be that you use it here with this thing. And you use it off to the, you know, side of beginning thinking about it or the side of like really considering happier, healthier, that is, the other side to it. So I just wanted to give voice to that, that we could keep peeling back the layers.
It depends on the person, it depends on the context they’re in and the culture they grow up in. It depends on their beliefs, but the, is their behavior aligned with their values is something we can consistently bring it back to. And quite honestly, I think we should do a whole thing if. You haven’t heard the Focus Mountain on podcast that we have.
We have multiple. Let’s let, let’s do that, John. Cause I think it’s important and I know be the change, the new training you’re doing, Casey, we’re gonna really dive in and help people, I think even figure out what is, what is my focus mountain? What are those values I have? Yes. Yes. So let’s definitely do another podcast in that.
Thank you guys so much. I know you both have to run to training, so thank you for, for this great episode and I look forward to, the next one. Thanks. Any you guys, listeners, Casey, email, Casey if ioc.com ideas, suggestions, feedback. We love it. Keep it coming. Please love it. Thank you. All right, take care of this.
Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at firstname.lastname@example.org. That’s CASEY@IFIOC.COM. For more information or to schedule a training visit IFIOC.com Until our next Communication Solution podcast, keep changing the world.